mrdixon (mrdixon) wrote in god_and_sex,
mrdixon
mrdixon
god_and_sex

Masturbation (I just had to!)

Ok, so I heard a logic argument that went like this.

The definition of adultery is having sex with someone other than your marriage partner.

Masturbation is having sex with someone other than your marriage partner.

Therefore, masturbation is adultery.

the obvious logic problem is in the premises, not in the conclusion, for if the premise holds true, the logic is there. However, is the definition of adultery correct in this statement. I say no! Because the act of adultery, by definition, must include another human being, and therefore, this statement is false.

So why, then, does my wife feel such terrible guilt when doing it, or even when using a vibrator. She believes sex should be entirely natural. No toys, no ropes, no oils or costumes. She indulges my desires on occasion because she loves me, but she would much prefer to do it in the comfort of our bed, long after dark, and to use only the things that God has gifted us with. When she knows I have been masturbating she is very hurt and upset.

Well, I hope this starts some fun discussions here. Understand I enjoy many types of alternative sexual fun, but this main question seems to be our biggest stumbling block.

thanks, Peace

dix
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i agree with most of what you're saying, but "not letting her find out" is not cool at all. if you're committed enough to someone to be married to them, lying about something that obviously is important to them is most definitely not okay.

if you can't come to an understanding about this issue together, then refraining from masturbating seems like the only way to be really respectful of her beliefs, as much as it may really suck and seem illogical to you.

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i personally don't think it's right to even be misleading with things like that... it might be most sensible, but i think it's disrespectful to her.
I don't think that masturbation is committing adultery either. Personally, I am a sub with a fascination for smells, leather, and psychological dominance. I try to keep an open mind about most aspects of sex and encourage my boyfriend in almost any deviation from the so-called "norm".

Does your wife not like you to masturbate because she thinks it means she can't satisfy you? Or she's insecure about what you may fantasize about during masturbation? Or is it less psychological and more religious in nature, i.e. because she wants to use only the things that God has gifted us with?

I only pry because I think honest communication about fears and desires is key here. I obviously don't know you or your wife except what I think I've gleaned from this post, but there should be some middle ground here yet to be discovered. What my ex and I used to do was: Pick a day of the week (or month), call it "explore your sexuality" day or something, and use that one day to do something a bit more adventurous, maybe something just a little bit out of one of our comfort zones, and take turns every time that day comes around who gets to pick the fun thing to do.

However you solve your issue, I wish you many blessings and many hot moments!
~Christie
Thank you for your post, you're right, there is so much going on behind this. My wife is the survivor of a very abusive upbringing, including a mother who is a lesbian pedophile who taught that masterbation was a carnal sin.

I will post some more questions about the survivor problems we struggle with, but then they should be right for a site such as this. I hope you all can help me to better understand why God lets such things happen.

Dix
masterbation was a carnal sin
And pedophilia is not a carnal sin????!!!! You gotta love some people.

Has your wife sought professional help with dealing with her past? I hope so. That is a real biggie. No wonder she has sexual issues.
Please tell her that there is hope and light at the end of the tunnel. There is help out there.
You have to understand that masturbation was originally a sin because in the early days of judeo-christianity, numbers meant power when it came to religion. The God with the most followers won. So you weren't supposed to waste your seed, because you were supposed to be fruitful and multiply.

I've never cared much for masturbation, myself. That's for different reasons, though. I'm learning the joys of vibrators, but I much prefer their use by my Beloved. But that's still making love and not masturbation, IMO.

I'm sorry your wife's upset. She seems to have a lot of emotional issues when it comes to sexuality. At least she's got a loving partner who tries to figure out how to help her grow! Explain that you love her more than anything, but you do have urges that don't quite mesh with hers. When you're making love, you're totally focused on her...but your fantasies let you fulfill your other fantasies while waiting for her to be willing to explore them with you.

Frankly, I don't understand how any woman could be surprised to find out her man played fiddle on the side.
You know what they say: "99% of men masturbate and the other 1% lie about it".

This is probably a silly suggestion, but have you ever considered mutual masturbation as a sexual practice? That way, masturbation can become something you share, rather than simply a solitary activity. I think your wife probably could benefit from decent sex therapy to help her overcome her traumas, but also, as a woman, it is very difficult to truly enjoy sex if you cannot masturbate and enjoy your own body, yourself.

As for her argument that masturbation is a kind of adultery... sorry, but I think that's just a silly excuse. It's like saying suicide is murder (we should therefore stone people to death if they survive a suicide attempt, perhaps?). It's legalism and Christians should have no part of legalism.
You know...I like your legalizm statement. My wife would benefit from some therapy, but getting her to agree to it is another question all together.

peace,

dix
I used to feel that same guilt. I started self-pleasure at the age of 10, having discovered the pleasures of showerheads, quite by accident. I thought I was dirty and shameful doing such things to myself. It was my puritannical upbringing that taught me this. 22 Years, I suffered that guilt.

Then something happened...it blew my world apart. A session with a Reiki practioner. He blasted energy through me...blasted through all the blocks. And for the first time in my life, I really felt 'me'. My life was changed forever. Slowly, I discovered that these things are not shameful. They are beautiful. They are God's gift to us. No one told me that. I FELT it.

I knew I had moved past the guilt when I was able to mastibate, with my wonderful little Mr Buzzy toy, in the arms of my honey. I let him hear and see exactly who I was, at a very deep level. And he still loved me. It really WAS ok. I burst into tears, so greatful for finding this blessing.

So.....not sure if that helps at all. Maybe it gives you a different perspective. It took a life-changing event for me to move past the guilt and shame. Now I glory in self-pleasure, doing it both for me and my honey. And have no problem when he self-pleaures in front of me (in fact, it's a huge turn-on) or if he does it in private. Because we have explored this so much, we each think of the other when we self-pleasure on our own, so there are no self-doubts or anything.

~ Be well ~
Thank you so much for sharing these thoughts with me. It does help, even if it just helps me! Your story is very uplifting!!
Thank you :-)
I know this is old but I came here to find a better way to explain things to my Mormon friend and stumbled across this question. It's the only one I could answer since I'm not very religious.

The main thing seems to be self-esteem. You said she was in an abusive enviorment and, coming from one myself, I can say that it alters how she sees herself, how she is "used", and the amount of appreciation that comes with it. When you masterbate she feels a bit miffed, worthless maybe, because you went to another source for something she is delegated to give you. Almost every woman would feel that way if she was shut out of the experience; you have to be clear with her, explain that you are just using it as relief. If you hide it, it's a secret, something she is supposed to endure.

Religion, for me, was a set of rules and they were too numerous and without enough explanation for me to credit them; I'm not the type of person who would follow such lines of thinking simply because I got out early and am a bit stubborn, but all the same if a notion is drilled into one's head for years it sticks. She needs some Help from a counselor to overcome her mother's manipulation. Religion is very strong motivator for some and that's something you'll have to accept and support after explaining your side.